Head Coach John Harbaugh
Opening statement:"Hello, everybody. Good to see you; welcome. It's been a long time – it seems like it's been a long time. We've been busy. So, thanks for coming. We're here to introduce Todd Monken as the new offensive coordinator of the Baltimore Ravens, and I'm very, very excited to be able to do that. Before we get into that, I want to first of all thank some people. [I'd like to] thank the candidates that were involved. We had some amazing candidates that we had a chance to talk to, both college and pro coaches. I want to thank them for their time, their effort and for their work in the interview process. I also want to thank the committee. We had a committee led by [assistant head coach and defensive line] coach Anthony Weaver, who did a great job. [Scouting information & research manager] Steve Clagett was on the committee, and [director of football research] Scott Cohen was on the committee. Those guys interviewed Todd [Monken], and they interviewed all the other candidates, too, pretty thoroughly. So, I appreciate those guys' efforts, and they weighed in on the decision. All the recommendations, and calls and conversations that we had with different people about all the different candidates – I want to thank all those people too, because it was a big help. We made a decision to throw a big net out there, and when you do that – when you cast a big net – it's a big undertaking. It comes with challenges; there are a lot of calls, there are a lot of conversations, there is a lot of information gathering. A lot of people in the building helped us with that. We got to know a lot of people; we got to know their stats, their families, their backgrounds, all those kinds of things. We had Zoom meetings with everybody on a first level, then we had in-person meetings with a pretty big group of guys that were here at the building, and I really enjoyed that. It gets emotional; this is a career opportunity for a lot of coaches, and you kind of go through that with them. Things are moving fast, and things are happening, and people are getting pressured in different directions. I kind of rode that roller coaster with different guys, but there are a lot of rewards that go with it too. Just personally, it was a great experience. I got a chance to get to know some people really well that I didn't know before – Todd obviously being one of those [people] – but also all the other candidates that were involved. [I] got to know their families in some cases, got to learn a lot of football and different ways that people do things, whether it's systems, or how they approach it, or how they relate to their players, how they run their no-huddle offenses. All those things are things that were just interesting and valuable. You get to find out and you realize that there are a lot of great coaches in this profession [and] a lot of great people in this profession, both in the NFL and at the college level. It made me feel great to be a part of the profession [and] get to know these people.
"Then, it came back to Todd Monken. It started with a call I got – Todd doesn't even know this – it started with a call that I got from my sister, Joani Crean, and [former University of Georgia head basketball coach] Tom Crean. When Tom was at Georgia the last couple years, Joani and Tom got to know Todd and his wife, Terri, and they got to be friends and spent a lot of time together. Joani just tells me, 'You've got to talk to Todd Monken. He's amazing, his wife's amazing. He's a great coach; we've seen what he's done here at Georgia.' I got on the phone with Tom [and] Tom reiterated that – how much he respected Todd. That really got me thinking in that direction. So, we reached out and had a chance to talk to Todd, I think on the phone first and then the Zoom meeting, just talking ball really. [We were] talking background – we're both kind of from the Midwest originally, so we know a lot of the same people, and I had known Todd from afar. I had watched him coach; we've coached against each other. Then just talking ball, and [it was clear] how really great, how extensive his knowledge is, how broad his knowledge is, how adaptable he is, how versatile he is in terms of what he's able to do with his X's and O's and his scheme stuff. So, the ability to move in different kinds of systems, different kinds of types of football, different personnel groups – run game, pass game, protection, RPOs, quarterback-driven stuff, downhill run game, play-action stuff tied to it – all the stuff that we're kind of looking for. Different kinds of tempos, huddle, no huddle, real fast, controlled tempo, call plays at the line, don't call plays at the line … These are all things that you talk about [and] things that he brings to the table that he's really very versatile with. That's going to be very valuable for us. So, that's part of it. The relationship part of it was really good too. You talk to different people that have been around Todd – players especially, but also coaches – he just has a great way with players. He has a great way in the meeting room, he's very talented in the meeting room, gets the guys going, gets them laughing a little bit. You'll see. He can talk and he can tell a story, but he can challenge the guys, too, and hold them to the highest standard. I know our players are going to love him [and] are going to love being around him every single day. Also, finally [he has] – I guess the biggest part for me – character obviously, relationships obviously, but the ability to and the focus on building an offense around the talent that you have. [He has] not necessarily a one-system type of an approach like, 'This is our system and we fit the players to the system,' but a player-driven approach that, 'We're going to build the system around the players and around the personality of the team.' I think our fanbase is going to be really excited with what we see from this offense going forward. I know I am. So, we're going to get started today, and I guess with no further ado, I'm going to introduce you to our new offensive coordinator, Todd Monken."
Offensive Coordinator Todd Monken
Opening statement:"Thank you, and a big shout-out to [owner] Steve Bisciotti, and obviously [head] coach [John Harbaugh, and [executive vice president & general manager] Eric DeCosta and [team president] Sashi [Brown]. They were all part of it. So, [I'm] excited, excited to get started. We have a lot of work ahead of us, obviously starting with staff and then obviously putting a plan together, building off of what's been really successful in the past – power run game, play-action – and then trying to build off that. So, it's been exciting; I've been here since last Wednesday, so it's been fun to get started. I know it's going to go fast, so we have a lot of work ahead of us."
You obviously could have stayed at the University of Georgia, as their interest was pretty well known. What made this job so appealing and why did it lure you away? _(Jamison Hensley) _"I think first is the challenge to do it against the best in the world. I think everybody aspires to have that challenge. If I was going to do it, it was going to be somewhere that was parallel to Georgia. Part of the reason I went to Georgia – one of the main reasons – was because of culture; head coach, winning, really good on defense, obviously trying to find a way to do it better on offense. So, I thought that was a parallel that I thought fit me. So, irrespective of who was or wasn't going to be on the roster, I felt like it was something that I really wanted to do, and that I've always wanted to do. So, that doesn't mean that I'm not grateful for [Georgia head coach] Kirby Smart and the coaches that I worked with there. I get way too much credit for our success; I came in there, and the culture was already set, the players were already recruited. The staff that we put together was tremendous in terms of our success, but this was what was next. You can't be two places at once; that's just the way it is sometimes in life. That was a great job, and it was hard [to leave]. You get close to the players, but you can't be two places at once and this is what's next."
In Baltimore, you might be able to coach one of the more high-profile players in the league in QB Lamar Jackson. Have you had a chance to talk to him yet? _(Cordell Woodland) _"I really haven't had the chance to talk to any of the players yet really. [I was] just getting here last Wednesday, just trying to get my feet wet, working through a lot of things that come from staff, what we're going to do moving forward, all that, just trying to figure out where I'm headed when I drive to the facility."
You coached in the NFL prior to your time at Georgia. What do you think you learned from the past three years at the highest level in the collegiate game that you can take away to make yourself a better NFL coach? _(Luke Jones) _"I think the game has changed. The game has become more of a space game; using all 53-and-a-third yards and using the width and depth of the field, using space players and your skill players. I think that's changed. Years ago, maybe it was inside-zone and run-duo downhill. Now, it's utilizing athletic quarterbacks. The game has changed; it's changing. At one time, it was taller pocket passers, and now you're seeing more shorter, athletic players. The game has changed in terms of using their athleticism, using players' athleticisms, what they bring to the table because the game is about space. It's about being explosive. Well, how do you create explosives? Well, part of it is creating space. So, that's probably the biggest thing is, 'How do you find a way to incorporate that into your offense?' I think also being no-huddle, some tempo [and] what that provides because [in the college game] we were all no-huddle. It's a little bit different then because of the dynamics of a signal system, and then the [radio communication] green dot to the quarterback. So, you have to work through some of that. That will take some working through, but it's a speed bump, not a hurdle."
Head coach John Harbaugh spoke about how you're not tied to a system and that you build your offense around the talent that you have. Is that a philosophy you've had since early on in your career? I know your dad was a longtime coach. Where did that approach come from? _(Childs Walker) _"Well, first of all, I learned a lot from my dad, but at that age I was just happy to be on the field and be a water boy. All my heroes were my dad's players. That's what you are when you're a coach's kid, and it's not always the players that were the best players. This one thing I did learn from my dad and some coaches – and you try to tell that to the players and coaches – is that young people's favorite players at first start off to be the best players, but then eventually it's the ones that make you feel special. So, that's your job, is to make people feel special. Your job is for them; you have a job for them. That's why you have a job, is to create the best version of them. The moment we forget that, we're wrong; we're dead wrong.
"I think when they say, 'Adapt to the personnel you have,' let's start off with this – everything works better with really good personnel, so let's start off with that, irrespective of what that may look like from running back, tight end, receiver. I've been really lucky to be with a lot of really good coaches that I was a part of that [kind of system]. One time, I was at Louisiana Tech, and that was when [former Louisiana Tech head coach] Gary Crowton [was there], and they were spread and that's when it started off with bubbles and getting the ball out on the perimeter. Then, I went with [former Oklahoma State head coach] Les Miles and his fourth-and-four, which was toss it to Jacob Hester, and it was power-run game and inside run was 30 minutes, and you practiced for three hours. There are certain aspects of all of that that you gather that you learn from. You take that and what you realize is that good football is surrounded by don't turn it over, be explosive, score touchdowns in the red zone, be good on third downs, don't have loss yardage plays and athletic quarterbacks that make off-schedule plays. The rest of it just falls into that. That's the analytical part. How do we get to that model? Don't turn it over, and how are we explosive? I don't care if it's with a fullback, without a fullback, four wide, three wide. My cousin [Army head coach Jeff Monken] at Army runs a triple-option; that works. Now, you can only run what you know. You can't just make stuff up. It's fun to do that, but usually it doesn't work. The reality is that there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, but still the principles of how you win are the same."
What did head coach John Harbaugh or executive vice president & general manager Eric DeCosta tell you about the long-term availability of QB Lamar Jackson? Did any uncertainty there weigh in your decision making? _(Bo Smolka) _"First of all, I count on [executive vice president & general manager] Eric [DeCosta] and [head coach] John [Harbaugh]. They're the best in the business; they're going to take care of anything that has to do with any player, not just Lamar [Jackson]. Sure, any player that's part of a roster where you're going into, you have an interest in what the roster's going to look like, but ultimately, I wanted to be someplace where structure, organization, great on defense from top to bottom. Everybody I talked to said, 'You want to be a Baltimore Raven. You want to be a part of that organization moving forward.'"
How difficult would it be if QB Lamar Jackson holds out and it comes to the first week of the season and he's behind in your system installation? _(Vinny Cerrato) _"Sure, he'll be behind, but it's still just football. I think sometimes we make this out to be way too much. It's just football. I don't know when he started – maybe at five years old with the Purple Pounders or something in Miami or something. It's just football. We'll cater to what he knows, and play. It's like any player. Any player is like that; the more time you spend with them, the more comfortable they get with any system or relationship. That's a big part of it, and there's a big part of that relationship from a quarterback-coordinator, play-caller, position coach where they're comfortable and there's a trust. That's a big part of that, and that's built over time, even beyond individual plays in that comfort of like, 'Hey, we're going to give you the keys to this car. Let's see what you can do.' That happens a lot more in the offseason – I'm kind of now expanding it – in the offseason is where you experiment. That's kind of where you kind of let the quarterback have some reins with it. As you get closer to the season, that kind of goes away a little bit. You have to start game-planning and really be dialed into what you're going to do."
Now that you've worked with a lot of different quarterbacks, how would you describe the skillset you would have to work with in QB Lamar Jackson? _(Mark Viviano) _"Elite. He has an elite skillset; it's obvious when you watch him on film, the things he can do with the football and the plays that he makes. I think he's underrated as a passer in terms of his ability to make plays and throw it down the field. So, you've all seen it. I'm like you; I'm no different than you. I watch what you guys watch, and it's pretty amazing."
Have you worked with any players with similar skillsets to QB Lamar Jackson? _(Mark Viviano) _"No, no."
So, what would you say some of the strengths and weaknesses of this offense are? I assume you've watched a bunch of film. What would you say they are? (Mike Preston) _"That's hard, because … First of all, when I first started watching film … First of all, there is a transition, because Lamar [Jackson] has been here for a while, and the roster changes around players, and injuries add to that. And I first started watching, and I'm like, 'Wow, they do really good stuff in the run game. Like, holy cow, that is very creative.' And at first, I was watching it and going, 'I have no idea why they want me there. Like, I don't know what I'm going to be able to be better at – truly.' I was like, 'Wow, they did some really good things.' And as you continue to watch … Players dictate style of play – they do. Players around the quarterback dictate a style of play; there's no way around it. When I was at Tampa, we had really good receivers. We had DeSean [Jackson]; we had Mike Evans; we had Chris Godwin; we had Adam Humphries; we had O.J. Howard; and we had Cam Brate. And we had quarterbacks that loved to throw it – sometimes to the other team, but they liked to throw it. _(laughter)But the reality is we were much better throwing it, so that's where you play to – the strengths of who you have. We had to be good throwing it. Now, we weren't nearly as adept running it. I needed to do a better job, probably, scheming it. OK, so then you get in somewhere where you start losing some of your perimeter players. It's still about winning, so it's hard to judge, because you don't know the roster. Does that make sense? Like, 'Why are they doing the things that they're doing offensively?' Because it's still about winning. You have to do the things that give you the best chance to win every week. But I do think that being able to use … I think players want to play in a game that spaces the field. I think when you go into an install meeting, all of your skill players want to say, 'Where are my opportunities coming? Where am I going to get a chance to touch the football and showcase my ability?' And I think the more you're able to do that and utilize that … Because to me, balance isn't run-pass; balance is make them cover all five of your guys; make them defend the field; make them defend the depth of the field. So, I think it's all those things. [It's] easier said than done sometimes, based on personnel, but I think that's where players want to play [and the way] they see themselves, and the game has gone that way. That's the way the college game has gone; that's what they're used to. They're not used to – anymore – being under center, five-step drop; that doesn't exist. They're used to being in [shot]gun, RPOs [run-pass options], spreading the field, using space players; that's what they're used to. So, I think that's the style they want to play. And so, if you said, 'Is that who we're going to be?' I'm not saying that; I'm just saying, I think that's got to be a part of what you do."
You mentioned that you think QB Lamar Jackson is maybe underrated as a passer. How do you think he is underrated in that way? _(Jamison Hensley) _"I think it probably started off when he [Lamar Jackson] came out. I think that was already a narrative. I think sometimes there's a narrative that gets put out there and it just carries. It doesn't matter what it is. There are narratives in all of our lives – of what some person can become, who they are, where they were born, ethnicity; it doesn't matter. You put a narrative as to what they can be. I think that started from the get-go – of what he can and can't be – and I think in a lot of ways, he's proven that to be a falsehood, in terms of what he's capable of. But again, some of those things are a little bit … I've got to be careful of how far I step out there, because I've never worked with him. So, you're sitting there saying things that … What was taught, how they schemed it – all those things. But it's impressive."
You had two really good tight ends at Georgia this past year. You now have TEs Mark Andrews and Isaiah Likely. Specifically, with Isaiah Likely, how do you feel like you can help take his game to the next level? _(Cordell Woodland) _"Oh, I don't … We became that, because they were two of our best players, and of course, that pissed off every slot [receiver] we had. So, that's just the way this works. 'OK,' you're 11 personnel, your tight ends are mad; you're in 21 personnel' … It's just the way this goes. I get it. Everybody wants to play. I get it. Well, two of our best players were those guys. Luckily, our slots were very team oriented. They were great kids; they understood that – some of our best leaders – they didn't get the opportunities they wanted, but ultimately, we're paid to score [and] move the football. They were two of our best players. That always plays itself out. And so, when you look at the roster, you see, 'OK,' Mark [Andrews], who has done it for 'X' amount of years … And Mark won't remember this … So, I'm going to tell a story just for the hell of it here since I have the microphone. Twelve years ago, I'm at Oklahoma State. Mark probably doesn't remember this. So, I'm at Oklahoma State. Kasey Dunn is the wide receivers coach; I'm the [offensive coordinator]. We're flying to Arizona to watch a quarterback throw and a receiver run routes. This is 2011. We go there. I'm dog-cussing him the whole way; 'I can't believe we're going to see sophomores. This is the dumbest thing going.' I get there; it's Kyle Allen throwing, and it's Mark Andrews catching, as a sophomore, 16-year-old, playing wide receiver. And of course, he goes to Oklahoma, and I'm at Oklahoma State. But the fact of the matter is that he's a tremendous player. He's done it for a number of years. [Then] you've got a young player [Isaiah Likely] who is learning how to play at the professional level. But they both have the ability to make plays down the field, run after catch. So, it's a great starting point, because I think they're tough matchup guys. I think it starts with matchups, where … Once you get out of the run, play-action world, now you're in a matchup world – running backs that can win on linebackers; tight ends that can win – and it forced them [to either] go big, and you win matchups, or are they going to go small, and you're better off in the run game. Those guys create matchup issues for you, which is a great starting point."
Are you anticipating keeping most of the offensive staff in place, or are you still figuring that out? Is it possible that you would bring a few people in? _(Childs Walker) _"It's still a work in progress. I just got here last Wednesday. They did a tremendous job here. You can look at film, and some of the things they did on offense were tremendous. So, it's still a work in progress."
The institutional thinking is that the college game kind of flows up to the NFL, in terms of scheme and play-calling. Having been at the college level for the past few years, what do you think will be next, in terms of big-picture philosophy, that comes to the NFL? _(Chris Bumbaca) _"I think it's already started. You can see it; just the teams that were … And they had already started that years ago. When I got to Jacksonville, my first stop, 15 years ago, 2007, they started to do stats, like under center and [shot]gun, and all it has done is continue to climb – with spread offenses and the evolution of more athletic quarterbacks utilizing their legs. Now, that comes with a price, because you can get beat up, right? I mean, you can get hurt. You expose yourself a little bit more. But the game has changed in terms of that, where like I was saying, with quarterbacks, you're seeing less and less big, pocket-throwing quarterbacks. I'm not saying that's going away, because you still have to have an elite skillset; it doesn't matter what it is. But you're seeing a lot more where it's like, 'OK, what are you going to sacrifice? Would you rather have a 6-5 statue, or would you rather have someone that's maybe a little more athletic?' And first of all, you'd love one that's a really good player, because you wouldn't turn down Tom Brady, right? So, I'm not saying that, in that regard. You still have to be elite. But the point is what you're having to look at, there are more and more athletic quarterbacks; there's more spread. And the more spread you are and the more empty you are, it's more fun if your guy is athletic. He can get you out of trouble. Like, he can buy yards. In the Super Bowl, I think [Patrick] Mahomes had 40 [rushing] yards with a bad ankle, and [Jalen Hurts] had 70. Well, that's hidden yardage; that's auxiliary yards. It gets you out of trouble, because you're rarely going to be perfect in protections. And the more spread you get, the more space, the more – OK, wow – they start to cover down, and [if] he makes a guy miss, he can make you pay. I think the game has changed that way, where years ago, when I was that way, there were more fullbacks; there were more MIKE linebackers; there were more big tight ends; there were more Mercedes Lewis'. Hell, he's been playing since I was in Jacksonville, for God sakes, and we've got a guy coming out [of Georgia] – Darnell Washington – he's a throwback 'Y.' Try to find a 'Y;' try to find a blocker in college. Try to find that. It's very difficult. You're finding more 'air-raid' wideouts that were big. [George] Kittle was 205 pounds out of high school; he was playing wideout. Well, those are your matchup guys, because they were wideouts. They got raised in a wideout offense, and they got bigger, so they're even more of a matchup [problem], because they can route run, they can separate. So, I think that's where the game has changed – for matchup players – and teams are more willing to do that. When you take Wes Welker playing 'X' receiver for the Dolphins – and they were ahead of their time – they put him in the slot, and he's a Hall of Famer. [If] you leave him at 'X' or 'Z,' he's not a Hall of Famer; he's a good player, not a Hall of Famer. So, what is it that you do with a certain player that creates that advantage? [It's] the same with tight ends. Years ago … At one time, Kellen Winslow [Sr.], that was a novelty. Like, 'Boy, that's a … Holy cow.' He's not the novelty; that is what it is now. That's the game today."
What is your impression of WR Odell Beckham Jr.? (Vinny Cerrato) _"I don't even know the rules. Can I speak on it?" _(Reporter: "Well, he [Odell Beckham Jr.] is a free agent.") "Oh, so then I can speak on it. You can't speak on a guy that's under contract, right? OK, I really like Odell [Beckham Jr.]. Odell is super athletic, twitchy. [He] really likes football. I really did [like him]. It didn't work out the year I was there [with him in Cleveland], but ultimately … He's like every skill player; he's no different – I don't know why everybody gets pissed off – like, he wants the ball. Well, really? I don't know where I've been where a great player didn't want the ball. I don't know where a basketball player didn't want shots or a baseball player didn't want to get at-bats. That's what they want; they want opportunities to showcase their ability. I think it's awesome. I think he's tremendously skilled, and I like his personality. He likes to compete. He has a tough deal, though, because he's a … In my opinion – and he may think differently – it's tough being a face. Does that make sense? Like NBA [players] deal with it all the time, but there are very few NFL players, outside of the quarterback, that they really know their face; that they're a market. And he's that way, and I think that makes it hard at times. When you're under the microscope like he is, it really is hard. But I liked Odell a lot. I liked his skillset, liked his work ethic. He fought through an injury. Tremendous."
Georgia QB Stetson Bennett said he didn't really understand football until he got to work with you, and you said all the credit to him. How do you kind of go about teaching guys to see football the way that you do, to make sure you're all on the same page? (Jonas Shaffer) _"Well, that's way too much. Obviously, he [Stetson Bennett] was in [front] of a camera, and he had to say that – do you know what I'm saying – to say that [stuff]. So, let's get real. Like, the reality is he was a really good player. I was already thinking about my answer before I actually heard the second part of the question. What was the second part of the question? Sorry." _(Reporter: "How do you go about teaching players to see the game the way you want them to see it?")"I think it's the reverse of that. I think it's how they see the game and then figuring out what they already know – like how they see it – and are the capable of certain things? Some players are more capable than others. Like anything, any job that you have, some people are more capable than others of certain tasks. So, some quarterbacks want control; some quarterbacks want to be in charge of changing routes and protections, and some don't; some don't want that – some players. There is a lot that goes with that. He [Bennett] wanted that. He's very smart; he was older. He understood football; he just didn't understand certain things that, if you want to play in the NFL, you're going to have to know. So, for him to say that … I don't know. But the reality is I think you see it through the players' eyes first, and then you go from there, because you can't force someone to do something they're not capable of. You can't take a fullback and say, 'Hey, we want you to be a matchup guy on a linebacker' – things like that, that you just have to work through."
For the past five years, the area where the Ravens have struggled is consistently throwing the football. In watching some of the film that you have of this team, how much can the Ravens' offense improve, especially in the passing game? _(Jamison Hensley) _"Well, it starts with working together. An elite passing game is timing; it's working together, and I think the less you have of that, based on offseason or rotating your skill players, I think the harder that becomes. And I think the more consistent … The other thing is we have to do a great job of building concepts that fit together, so it fits in a quarterback's brain – that, 'OK, this is X, Y, Z, whatever, but it's very similar [or] the same [as] how we start.' And I think the more you go down that road, the easier it becomes. Obviously, the better you run the football, the better you throw it, so it starts with an excellent run game and then go from there."
You are probably aware that there is an avid fanbase that hopes and prays that you are the one that is going to fix this offense. Is there a pressure that comes with that? And how do you handle scrutiny that comes with this job? _(Mark Viviano) _"Well, I think, first off, as we all know in this profession … Let's start with this: this is week to week, month to month, year to year, because I don't think that fanbase would have said that in 2019, right? I would have doubted that would have been the way that they thought of it, and things go year to year, and then you re-assess. Does that make sense? Who doesn't like offense, for God sakes? The league revolves around fantasy football. They want to see scoring. It's interesting; you could win, 41-40, or you can win, 7-6, and you'd think the 41-40 team is just killing it. That's the way it is; it's what we're built around, right? I only control what I can control. You say, 'Is there pressure on it?' There's pressure everywhere. There was pressure at Georgia. You can say, 'Well, you had the best players.' Yes, but they expect us to go 10-2 at a minimum – that's pressure; you can't lose many games. So, there's pressure. It's what we do; that's what we sign up for; that's our job. Anybody that says that doesn't come with the territory, they're lying. That's a big part of what we do, and yet that's some of what drives us – that challenge of doing it better than they do it, because that's what it comes down to in the NFL. You've got good players, you've got good coaches, you've got good scheme. 'How do we do it better than they do it? How do we gain percentages? [Wherever] there's a one percent here' … Whether it's analytics, whether it's special teams, whether it's protection, whether it's a player, you're just trying to gain percentages to give you the best chance to move the football. So, I'm excited. I'm excited to get started. But again, like I always say, we're paid to score, and if you don't score, that's no fun. I mean, I don't know what else to say. Obviously, I get it."